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More interesting items/ideas for a Bioshock Rapture MMORPG  

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Part 50

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Sounds from the Lighthouse :

"If they're so smart, let 'em come up with a Plasmid for cleaning seagull crap offa stonework ..."

"You would think that a 200 foot lighthouse would not be conducive to secrecy."

"Hey look, some guy named Jack carved his initials into this bannister"

"Gettin to go up to The Surface aint all its cracked up to be, Im freezing my ass off ..."

"No, no, no.  FIRST you close the door and THEN you hit the descend button ..."

"I just found a message in a bottle ... who is Ringo??? "

"Hey Skipper, look A Lighthouse!!  Lets go tell the Professor, maybe he can figure out where the fuck we are ..."

Prophet Elijah - "Oops, wrong Rapture ..."

"You think anyone will want these Ryan statues any more?"

"Who the hell keeps leavin' Pepbar wrappers and empty beer bottles up here ???"

"Hey Mr Bubbles, that 'sphere ride was fun!   Aaaaah, that bright thing is hurting my eyes, Kill It!!,  Kill It !!!!"

"Huh??  Hey!  Where did all those other Lighthouses come from?!!!  Phewww, really gotta stop drinkin that  Absinthe stuff ..."


Film Smuggled In From Surface Causes Panic :

Some non-affiliated enclave in the City has found disturbing evidence that the Surface World has been taken over by some kind of aliens after massive catastrophic destruction of the old World.

Planet of the Apes (1968) Trailer ...

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Oxyfill Station (More Contemplations)  :

Implies commercial use (like a gas station...)??  Who would be outside (does NOT look automatc enough to  fill a Submarine without a "gas station attendant"..)    A frequentlt used operation like this might  actually be worth developing an anthromorphic robot mechanism,  with an operator at a safe inside location  (a booth).  Managing a diver to serve outside is alot of work/trouble (and overhead cost), though use of a  maintenance cyborg could work -- if manning a busy enough station warranted it    "OOOMMMMARRGGGHHHHH  HOMMMMM" (Check your oil, sir?)

The Oxy-fill stations we've seen dont look properly placed to service submarines  - area is too closed in  around them.  Subs would be logical customers as well as Divers and Equipment (which uses compressed gas).   
The city construction used alot more mini-subs (to run massive automated construction machinery of many  types) than what the 'Memorial Museum' portrayed.     So constant routine use would have many such  non-commercial re-fill stations (at minimum to 'top off' onboard supplies to maintain a sufficient safety  margin).

Automated billing (probably thru a membership) - not likely a 'coin slot' would be employed for the  station mechanisms.

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Weird Art (let the players imaginations be unleashed !!) :

British Police Phone booth/box (contemporary with Rapture)  - the lights flash and the thing shimmers and out steps Sander Cohen in a Pope-hat (naked) with a long scarf (or the door opens and a pile of fish guts pours  out - the tricky to simulate flow of half-rotted fish refuse will be a good special effect for the game).

Ah. Sophisticated 'Art' has come to Rapture !!!

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Coordinating NPC Teams :

One advance of this game is having lackeys/minion NPCs to assist the Player in various activities (many  tedious mundane and unexciting).    In Adventuring, they increase the Player's "party"  (these days some  MMORPGs are moving away from group playing, and adding NPC assist for role filling)  It does require quick  reaction (even if issuing orders) or being more automatic/reflexive with prespecified roles and actions  for various situations (it is pretty hard to coordinate yourself plus NPCs and issue detailed orders for  complicated situations  - and small areas mean you will 'be in the thick of it' and rarely can 'lead from  the rear').

Much of it has to do with having people in the right place (and NOT in the wrong place when things start  happening) First lesson will probably be how to coordinate a 'point man' .....

Two Players Adventuring, each having NPC 'followers' - the NPCs have to be coordinated with different  Players issuing orders (potentially conflicting) for their different tactical preferences.   Consider that  this game allows 'Friendly Fire' injuries/damage (NPCs will try to avoid , as they would even with a  single player).  But it gets more hectic with even more bodies around.   Just as in real combat,  actions  get nullified rather than risk hitting a 'Friendly'.  Of course the Splicers will be constrained the same  way  (AND NO they arent all simply insane and dont care -- all those ones are long dead).

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Big Sister be Pimpin ??  :

"Skippy skip, Mr. B... Big Sister doesn't like slowpokes."

"No time to play, Mr. B, more ADAM for Big Sister."

SO Big Sisters 'ran' the Little Sisters in their collection 'tricks' (you would think they would run out of new corpses eventually -- big surge though when YOU arrived on the scene...) (MMORPG Idea - Big Sister Voice using Pimp-Speak ...)

"This old angel is drier than a mouthful of dirt Mr B ..."

"Big Sister is going to punish me again Mr Bubbles, can you make me some New Angels, pleeeeeezzzz ???"

Big Sisters start killing Splicers just so they can have ADAM for their  'stable' of Little Sisters to  harvest -- so they wont be endlessly NAGGED by Sofia Lamb for not meeting their daily quota ???      Did  you ever notice Sofia Lamb has a wall of unbreakable glass between her and where the Big Sisters are ????

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In-game Fabrication - what good is it (we are moving well beyond the usual MMORPG lameness/simplicity/tediousness) :

- A more detailed object system, opening up additional activities and complications in playing experience  (when was the last time your BS1/BS2 weapon jammed and you had to switch to another one??).   Special  tools open additional Action options (dont throw away that grappling hook you found....)

- Fabrication Skills should be useful in active 'situations'  (combat/adventure/on-the-spot use).  So  Fabrication is worthwhile for the Player to develop (even if to just a competant awareness/knowledge)  for  the game to be something other than the usual MMORPG's grindy money-grubbing fake crafting.

- Ad hoc/quick-fixes/quick-n-dirty to add more imagination-stretching options on ways to handle many  situations  ("Hey Im gonna wedge that door shut and we'll be miles away before those creepy goons can get  it open"...   "I just need a type-3 Fuse and I can get the lights on in here"....  Etc...) 

- Lets break the  current sad-pathetic MMORPG pattern -- Quests/Missions which EVERYONE does and solves  the same way and EVERYONE gets exactly the same loot item payoff.   Combinatoric Auto-Customizations can  be program-driven to scramble Quest loot.   That loot might need some 'fixing up'/reconditioning before it  is fully uesful (continuing the associated activities).  Various parts and components can be found (or  specificly searched for)  to make game 'loot' more than just alot of crap you pile up to sell to a generic  vendor/shop.

- Fabricated (customized/improved) items should be Enablers, not 'god' weapons (they can help solve  situations, but are not to be ruling factor in the Game - instead Player skill/creativity and know-how is  to be, ).     Ordinary items can still usually get things done (but maybe requiring a bit more  effort/time/repeated attempts/failures/breakage).

- It should be possible to make items better than the Player's usual 'loot' finds (improvement in  utility should generally be small to prevent the "Gotta Have That +3 Sword so I can kill Dragons" crap).    Many Splicers dont keep their objects in good condition and haven't the skill to improve their possessions  much (larger organized Splicer faction may have more skill specialization, and thus have better  quality/kept stuff...)

- Player should not have to worry about item stats or attributes (bean-counting game numbers is the realm  of unimaginitive Players and Developers).   'This is better than that' differences generally should be  discernable.

- Objects with incremental Improvements ( addable customization/alteration attributes ) -- Please let  there be no laughable (pathetic) "Legendary" weapon which you soon discard for a newer  "+1 Legendary"  Weapon (and then another (+2 Legendary) and another ---   so many, that Players should be knee deep in  discarded weapons in the Game World - beside being upto their eyeballs in corpses).  Lets avoid more  time-wasting Grind-encouraging unimaginitive Player activities.

- Some Player's Skills to read/inform/indicate objects to determine if they can be fixed/repaired/modified  (with your current skills/tools). Evaluate/judge items state - likelihood of breaking during attempted  repairs - of possible success/cost/etc..    Object attributes should be a bit more realistic (in  complexity) with no  easy 'fits all' (over-generalized) stat-equations.  The Player still needs to be  given an idea of what they can fix, and what/how it is risky to attempt it .    

- Effort and preparation and facilities required to do repairs (sorry you cant carry a forge/drillpress  around with you - a temporrary patch (in the field) is the best you will get - you will have to make due  or use something else -- dont let certain game items become an indispensable use-all and  thus become a  'crutch'  ...).

- The Player can always pay to get stuff repaired (NPC/Player involvements)  vs. repairing it yourself  (or by your NPC Team).  This gives reason to interact with NPCs (you see them living all comfy in the City  when YOU are the one who goes out and risks 'life and limb' Adventuring and expanding the New City).

- Item component/parts/materials from the old days of Rapture - are often of better quality (generally).    Recently-made parts/items are more likely to be failure-prone/kludged/uglier-looking.   Objects have a  'Quality' system.

- The more complex the machine, the more maintenance it usually will require.

How much of the Game is this 'Fabrication' activity  suppose to be ?

- For weapons/protrective gear it will directly effect Adventuring (Player has to be involved some bit,  since they use it).

- Enablers - an activity done once to get by the requirements of a Quest/Mission  -- activity is  introduced to player using their basic skills  -- some Quests should require special skills/tools Players  have to manage (in preparation) to get access to.   Later, player can decide if developing such skills  will be advantage for further Quests/Missions.

- As money-makers in the City (commerce to support Adventuring), but it should be streamlined to minimize  tedious activities (Your NPC Team lackeys can moonlight for CASH in their free time, and you can dump  'reconditioned' loot on NPC middlemen).

- Business operations -  Once production infrastructure is set up (more advanced 'FAbrication' for the  machinery involved....),  each 'run' of production may need some 'fix/tweak/repairs/replacements'.   You  can get incremental production improvements if you bother to invest the effort. (Players organizes it, but  after that it would be Auto-run (NPCs) to get rid of the need for tedious micromanagement),

- Smart NPC Team that keeps Player's things running/maintained without Player having to constantly watch  everything (again less tedium, as Players gametime should NOT be wasted like that if possible).   Player  may have to decide/prioritize things, if resources are limited, but repetitive grunt work can largely be  done by NPC lackeys.

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Sizing Rapture :

Placing my extended level maps onto my map of Rapture (derived from the BS1 Austen Bathysphere map)  it  looks like some of the game's outside views might not be too inacurrate, distance-wise at the scale I  arbitrarily chose.   The game levels are largely spread (sprawl) horizontally, and take up good chunks of  the seabed.   We really dont go up/down more than a handful of floors.  The Skybox views do show alot of  buildings/skyscrapers with dozens of floors (some 40+).   Unfortunately some Skyboxes are reused on  different level maps and are even repeat viewed out opposite sides of the same building, giving the  impression of more tall buildings than should actually be there.

The only reason to build tall was to be impressive (for the game), some scenes are quite Manhattan-like,  but the 20000 population might have trouble filling so many large buildings.   Some of them are tall and  thin and that would limit the interior spaces (I suggest it may be empty space or utility system space and  not habitation levels),  decorative towers and such often may be a third of the height of the building --  the Fontain Futuristsic 'tower' as an example....).

URL of Rapture map :

Rapture (City) may be about 3 miles by 2 miles, but has empty areas in the middle which may because of  inappropriate seabed which was not stable to place buildings on.

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Columbia is at 20000ft altitude?? (30000?)

I didnt see all the people there gasping for breath (or at least Booker).

Must be another one of those 'Quantum' things even a desperate 3rd-rate Sci-Fi pulp magazine wouldnt use.

Is there any point in even talking about the fantasyland situation in Infinite any more.  All the 1912 era  stuff is just a pretext so they can use 'old-time' assets for styles/music/ideas they could never come up  with themselves (so much easier to copy stuff from history books/pictures).    All that beyond steam-punky   pseudo-science BS destroys most of nostalgia effect.   The game writers are rather deluded if they think  what they portrayed has anything to do with Christianity or America.  It might as well have been Hello-Kitty  World.  The Heavy-handed/contrived straw-manning blows away any social relevancy the game was supposed to be  about.  Ten kinds of wrong (and they blew $100 million to produce THIS ???)

Meanwhile back in Rapture ..... Its all just a fever dream some already-half-insane Splicer has after  eating some boiled barnacle that has gone a bit 'off'.    The Splicer had been recently reading one of the  'Combo' Pamphlet Periodical/Toilet Papers (which are a popular publication in Post-Lamb Rapture) with some  fictional pulp story about Johnny Topside and Eleanor Lamb.     At least that makes sense.

In the MMORPG, New Rapture, with some semblance of Civilization restored, you wont be allowed to steal  things like you do constantly in BS:Infinite from apparently normal people and their possessions (and  going thru trashbins/garbagecans will get you strange looks as well as being unlikely places for goodies)  .   In BS1/BS2 your opponents were pretty much all homicidal mutants, and you were in enemy territory, so  you at least had a little excuse to filch useful items.

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Ordinary NPC people should not be Mannequins :

With some normalcy in the New City, we can't have most of the NPC inhabitants generally standing around  like mannequins, like they do in BS:Infinite.     There is more of them than in older games, but it is  still a largely empty landscape.    Most NPCs are still soul-less marginally-animated window dressing  (most when you walk up to them, now instead of being frozen like statues, stare at you genericly or utter  some canned phrase to get you to bugger-off).   The MMORPG has to remedy that sad situation, which is why  the Player Contribution system is so important.  Who else will have the time and creativity to add all the  diverse people doing all the various things real people do, with simulated real tasks and varying  activities to make them appear much more alive?  Reactive to situations, that can be done.

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Some of the Smarter Splicers 'fear' Ex-Splicers from New Rapture :

The Unknown Country - the Cure   (better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous insanity, bad food   and physical deformantion, or to take arms against brutal neighbors, than to go to that place where no  Splicer returns...)

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Why couldn't Ryan just use a radio direction finder to trace and nail Atlas ? :

The Radio Transmission System (and TV also) inside Rapture was not the same as up here on the Surface in  those days.    Radio waves travel poorly through water and not well through thick concrete.  So to get  coverage for proper reception transissions were sent thru wires either directly to fixed receivers (like  TV sets and Radios) or to local repeaters for 2-way portable units (walkie talkies).   Wires went all over  in Rapture, and the RF signals could use most any of them (I recall remote broadcasts were sent thru  conventional Telephone lines way back - som efor special coverage from unusual sights like A-Bomb tests in  Nevada).   Fontaine was clever enough to temporarily tap into or redirect his communications through  that  wire maze (crooks in the real world did it all the time), making it hard to trace a true position.  No  doubt, when possible, Atlas/Fontaine would make use of pre-recordings.

This also means that Radio reception may be poor-to-none depending on the state of those wires.  One more  thing for the Players  to be tasked with fixing.   Will be able to watch "Cecil the Seasick SeaSlug" once  again !!!

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Bathtubs - Valuable Commodity in Chaos Era Rapture :

- Source of food - green goo (algae) cultivated in it (dont really want to mention what is used for  'fertilizer'...).

- Place to keep your pet SeaSlug which is large enuf and largely unbreakable (licking them to get ADAM --  well if people do it to toads...).

- We see them in places where people were bootlegging ADAM products (if not the ADAM then maybe a way to  generate raw EVE??)

- Safer place to sleep (hard for rats to climb in to chew on you).

- Probably plenty of them around and they arent too easy to destroy (so many survived)

- Lesson from "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" - always take your gun with you when you use a bathtub.

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Jack is Delta ?  Probably not  :

Heh, it would be Sofia then that Eleanor might have been reconstituted from 10 year-old rotted corpse  tissue, instead of Johnny Topside (or whoever).   Jack would have fried Sofia on the spot if she tried to  pull her little escapade on him.   (Actually thats a pretty good 'alternate universe' plot with sufficient  Twisty-ness/novelty,  worthy of a Might-Have-Been Flashback scenario).

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Ryan be de Ebil ?  :

ATLAS : Portrait of a Parasite - Andrew Ryan explains the 'Ways of the Weak'

"Apollo Square Condemned - Anyone Entering or Exiting will be Shot on Sight.."

Atlas's supporters inhabit this place and Atlas (who's Splicers murdered citizens in the streets) is  frequently seen there.
Why not just close/seal the doors and turn off the power and air and kill all the terrorists inside ?
Ryan did not do that apparently.  Lamb would have.  Fontaine would have.  But remember Ryan is "the bad  guy"...  The One condemned whether he allegedly goes with or against his 'principles'.   But then we never  really heard from all the people who Ryan managed to keep alive during this attack upon the city's  survival.   They were people who had gone through WW2 and knew about when strong measures were needed.

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And you thought Plasmids/Vita-Chambers were hard to justify.... :

"Quantum Particles suspended in Space Time at a fixed height" .... Uh right.  Aristarchus's, Copernicus  and Gaileo, Einstein and others are rolling over in their graves.  The earth rotates (and wobbles)  and  orbits the Sun in an eliptical path, which orbits the center of the Milky Way, which is moving outwards in  the Universe.   Sum of more than 600 km/sec (most bullets travel well under 1 km/sec) in several different  changing vectors.   These 'quantum particles' seem to be pretty smart.  The least little error/variance  in  the millionths would crumple Columbia like so much tin foil.    Do you ever get the feeling they should  have just said the place runs on 'Fairy Dust' ???

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Lockpicking with Elizabeth - Your Team NPCs not quite so automatic :

They couldnt really restrict Lockpicking much in BS:Infinite because some backstory would be missing or  whole areas they created which half the player might never see (and the game play-thru would be even  shorter...).  There were plenty of Lockpicks about if you played a Manic Magpie.   In  BS2 they actually  had (via Hacking) some 'Ohhhh Noooos' risk and excitement with the game (active opponents) NOT  play-freezing (as in BS1) while you tried to hack stuff. 

Learning to lockpick from a book -- so easy so much of the time, yet Elizabeth couldnt figure out her  containment chamber's lock after years ???? (Sonic Screwdrivers hadnt been invented yet).

In the MMORPG, you have varying methods of unlocking things, varying skills, varying consequences ("Hey  Jocko, I wanted to salvage that expensive Genetic Lock you just smashed...")  Most easy locks probably  would already have been previous;y opened, and perhaps closed again intact after all the goodies were  extracted from behind it. (Good detail Idea - part of the auto-generated grungification would be to have  smashed locks/bashed open doors, patched locks and doors, etc,, to make it look like previoud visitors had  already done various things to newly generated game locations, and subsequent actions of Splicers  occupying areas to so similar things as part of normal behaviors).   

A whole new range of booby traps and such (Splicers have had years to come up with these things to keep  whats theirs  theirs, from other Splicers...).  Locks left intact might have been avoided by past visitors  for a very good reason :
- Rule #1 -- make sure Water is not slowly leaking past the door seals,  or on touch the door is NOT  either very hot or cold as the Sea). 
- Rule #2 -- If scrwled on the door is the skull and crossbones and the words "Keep Out and this means  YOU!!", extra caution is probably required.
- Rule #3 -- Dont destroy a door/lock if possible in trying to open it.  You may want to be able to  close/lock it later.

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Plasmid - "that introduce modified stem cells into the body, allowing for genetic modification and  mutation" :

This may need elaboration on as in the Real World stem cells are cells which can be used to rebuild tissue  of varying kinds in the right place (somehow stimulated by adjacent tissues), which is why doctors are so  interested in them  -- as they can repair largely destroyed tissue.   They work off the existing genetic  pattern of the individual (probably why the most promising research is for 'adult stem cells' - cells  taken from the patient themselves and somehow made to revert to act as stem-cells to be used where needed.

Anyway, the stem-cell function of the Plasmids has to be  matched by the genetic directives to modify the  persons existing tissue into the structure/function the Plasmid is designed for  -- so it INCLUDES that  new genetic information also.

How much the ADAM is Stem-cells (processed into Humanish type - as it did come from a Seaslug after all),  OR causes existing tissue to function like stem-cells, the pattern data for the final resulting "genetic  modification and mutation"  is included as a component of the Plasmid (and in Tonics also).

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No Impervious Doors :

How many games you blow the hell out of countless enemies with huge pyrotechnical special effects, yet  there is that miserable door you have to go clear across the map to get some stupid key to be able to open  it ??

Same for interior wiindows which you should be able to smash and get thru (or fire thru or whatever).  We  need to have the largely invulnurable exterior windows (or Rapture would have all drowned long ago), but  the inside ones need not be that expensive foot-thick X-technology  whatever-it-is invulnurable glass. 

Bizaare idea -  all those outside windows are really just projections with no real vulnurability to  outside, made that way because Ryan figured out that it is so dark out there in the deep Ocean nobody  would see anything anyway (even WITH lights - even bright sunlight cant be seen thru 490 feet of clear  water.) 

Some games now are starting to have 'deformable' scenery, where the terrain can be  extensively effected  by player actions.   In this MMORPG there would be a location/stuff behind every door to get to.   So even  the most stubborn wall/door can eventually be forced open (whether the effort will prove worthwhile is  another matter).

An even-more 'deformable' terrain will allow you to build your own walls and doors (and there would be  enough already done in this MMORPGs design/game mehanics  to allow that).

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In defense of Ryan :

Quote from somewhere on the Interwebz I can find again :

"Also Ryan can be seen to resemble d'Anconia', as he is willing to compromise his principles to defeat the  'Looter' enemy which cannot be otherwise defeated.   Perhaps he did have some grand plan to defeat Atlas  and return victorious, perhaps his plan was Jack, a living metaphor for Ryan himself; he that was  controlled by his foes into unspeakable acts, does himself defeat his foes by sheer resolve and will  power. "


The WYK room in Rapture Central Control shows that Ryan has worked out what was happening, and all the  (little) resistance that Jack runs into seems just a ploy (consider if you could ever fight a Zerg rush of  20 Fly-bots  and 30 splicers simultaneously... Ryan would have resources like that to stop you).     The  part the developers missed  was they COULD have had a EPIC Twist of Ryan Faking His Death (like Fontaine  had)  and then aiming Jack at Fontaine  (even if at that point Ryan had just about won the Civil War and  Atlas was on his last legs - it would have been ironic for Wanna-be King Atlas to be done in by his own  Pawn.)

Another wheel within a wheel - Ryan using Jack as a precipitator -- to expose other opponents that also  might exist in the City which he would have to deal with AFTER he dealt with Fontaine/Atlas.  Tenenbaum  surfaces (Ryan may need HER to assist in a Cure for his City), Sander Cohen comes out of the woodwork,  Steinman, etc....

SO with all the reasons we only saw what Ryan wanted us to see, its completely plausible he can be back  for a sequel (or better this MMORPG, as a shadowy force still pulling strings).

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Bathysphere system on Cables :

Early Rapture had no Thinker, no 'computers' which could guide transit Bathyspheres automatically. A pilot  would be needed for every self-propelled 'bathysphere' (and labor IS a major expense).

Clamping onto a moving cable running to the next station was much simpler (cheaper) and predictable than  individually piloted vehicles, which had to deal with ocean current variations, traffic, etc....   Automatic and redundant mechanical methods were much more reliable and safer.  It also eliminated the many  problems of fueling (or worse batteries) and maintaining a more complex vehicle (self-propelled  submarine), and increased the carrying capacity.

Submarine 'Taxis' were still available for transfer to private stations/docks (at a much greater expense).

Remember, there are no subsidized transportation fares in Rapture.  Cost effectiveness was required.

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In Rapture, Three is a Crowd (Multi-Player Group Adventuring) :

A good game offers the player the opportunity to use their imagination to achieve their goals using  different resources available to them.   If a Quest is easier because the Player is Teaming with another  Player, then thats good and proper.  It is also a goal of the game -- 'Multiple-Player' should be a  significant part any M.M.O.R.P.G. , as the coordination between Players is a far more interesting  experience than what you can get in a Solo game.   With the difficulty of getting people together  regularly to play a constant problem these days, design would have Two Players be the first priority to  accommodate.   More Players, each with a 'Team' of NPCs, might create quite a crowd in the typically  confined spaces of Rapture, but that offers its own challenges.

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Simplicity equals surviving Splicers :

Most splicers if they even had any Plasmids  had very few (compared to Jack or Delta or Atlas).   I could  speculate that the earlier ones didnt allow you to change them out --- a much more complex biological  mechanism/technology to engineer (the quickly changed slots (one active Plasmid) and then changeable slots  for Plasmids and Gene Tonics  - via Gene Bank).   Earlier versions, the more you had the more unstable you  were (and the Splicers we saw were the ones who hadnt geneticly imploded from too many at once).

Later, Ryan would have wanted the Plasmids to not fry the Splicers so much (he wouldnt want MORE insane  people tearing up his City and murdering the Citizens)  so when he got charge of Fontaine Futuristics  would have probably had them work on more stability, resulting in the slot mechanism and a method to  disable their effects (which Delta and Jack and Atlas could use - though who knows what the long-term  effects might still be - the games time span was really days at most(?) ).

ADAM also may have been rare(r) by the time of the two games, and it just may have been too hard to amass  enough ADAM for more than a few Plasmids (ontop of all the Tonics you could also want).

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